Aftermath

Well the first debate has ended and the twisting & Spinning takes over. Feel free to analyze to your heart’s content.

Advertisements

About Jamie

Retired Writer Editor - Loves Books, Musical Theater, politics for a good argument, genealogy, Scotland and owls
This entry was posted in Politics. Bookmark the permalink.

52 Responses to Aftermath

  1. Jamie says:

    I’m still in the Hillary camp of course, but was impressed by both O’Malley & Bernie. Hillary Turns Up The Heat http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/14/us/politics/hillary-clinton-turns-up-heat-on-bernie-sanders-in-a-sharp-debate.html?smid=tw-share&_r=2

    Like

    • patd says:

      visually, webb looked wooden and chafee a bit like the mad hatter. too bad because they both tried to emphasize the need for working together across the aisle, compromise and cooperation.
      jim was shafted timewise imo. cooper was to blame for that spending too much attention on ginning up a sanders/Clinton feud.

      Like

      • Jamie says:

        Webb didn’t help himself by using his time to complain about not getting enough time. He really sounded temperamental and whiney when he would have been better served by just giving strong answers to the question asked.

        Like

  2. Jamie says:

    From Tony previous thread:

    Hillary Clinton exudes confidence on debate stage
    Stephen Collinson Profile
    By Stephen Collinson
    http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/13/politics/democratic-debate-updates/index.html
    “(CNN)Hillary Clinton swept confidently into the campaign season’s first Democratic presidential debate on Tuesday, denying she flip-flopped on key issues for political gain and rebuking her top rival Bernie Sanders for not being tough enough on guns.

    In a performance aimed at solidifying her lock on the Democratic nomination, Clinton sought to pivot from a tough summer in which the controversy over her private email server triggered a slump in popularity ratings. She proved to be a polished debater, showing little rust after enduring 25 debates during the 2008 campaign.”

    Like

  3. tony says:

    Clinton crushes it
    Even Sanders defends Democrats’ embattled frontrunner, saying let’s shut up about her ‘damn emails.’
    By Shane Goldmacher

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/2016-presidential-debates-democrats-las-vegas-214724#ixzz3oVeAWDt1
    Reply

    Like

  4. tony says:

    Sorry, haters: Hillary Clinton won the Democratic debate
    Bernie brought his A game, but Hillary still comes out on top — maybe by enough to keep Biden out of the race
    AMANDA MARCOTTE
    http://www.salon.com/2015/10/14/sorry_haters_hillary_clinton_won_the_democratic_debate/
    “Towards the end of the debate, there was an exchange about family leave that showed that, despite a few bumps over issues like Wall Street reform, Hillary Clinton came across as the candidate who was most plugged into how modern Democratic voters think about the issues. When Dana Bash went after Clinton’s support for family leave by framing it as “another government program,” Clinton stomped that nonsense out like a boss.

    First she pointed out that is an empty Republican talking point and then she pivoted to a woman’s right to choose, noting that Republicans certainly love “big government” when it comes to stripping women of their reproductive autonomy. It was a smart performance, tying various feminist concerns together, linking them to larger economic concerns, and taking a swipe at Republicans. The audience went nuts for it.”

    Like

  5. tony says:

    Jim Webb is the biggest loser: Obtuse, petulant, out of touch
    We hate to say it, because it sounds like he kills his enemies. But Jim Webb lost tonight, badly
    AMANDA MARCOTTE
    http://www.salon.com/2015/10/14/jim_webb_is_the_biggest_loser_obtuse_petulant_out_of_touch/

    Like

  6. patd says:

    best comment and high light of the evening goes to Bernie and the audience, a standing ovation for “media…. enough with the emails!!!”

    politico (linked above by tony) seems to agree:
    “The American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn emails,” Sanders declared, after Clinton defended her use of a private email server while she was secretary of state and cast the Republican-led congressional investigation as overly partisan.

    Clinton beamed wide and, when Sanders was done, reached over to shake his hand. “Thank you Bernie,” she smiled. Inside the room at the Wynn resort and casino, there was a standing ovation among the Democratic attendees of the debate.

    Like

  7. tony says:

    Hillary Clinton Dominates Debate, Catches Sanders Off Guard on Guns
    Taylor Marsh
    http://www.taylormarsh.com/2015/10/hillary-clinton-dominates-debate-catches-sanders-off-guard-guns/#comment-41915
    “AFTER THE worst year a candidate can have, Hillary Clinton stepped out on the debate stage with something up her sleeve. Not long into the debate she wheeled her focus towards Bernie Sanders and caught him flatfooted on guns, from which he never recovered. Clinton didn’t look back. Or left, or right, because Anderson Cooper didn’t allow for a moment to lapse so the candidates could rest. It was all substance. Sanders was the one who brought up the email issue, which gave Clinton another boost, but Bernie didn’t care, because he knew those “damn emails” aren’t the most important issue.

    While repeating that her private e-mail server was a “mistake,” she said the House committee that exposed the issue was “a partisan vehicle, as admitted by the House Republican majority leader, Mr. McCarthy, to drive down my poll numbers.” She added: “I am still standing.” – Dana Milbank
    Beyond the title fight between Clinton and Sanders, we found out that Jim Webb killed a man and didn’t think he was given enough time. Martin O’Malley endorsed Clinton in ’08. And Lincoln Chafee, well…

    One moment was particularly bad for Sanders, when Jim Webb was talking and Anderson Cooper pivoted to Sanders, who looked like he’d either been thinking about something else or just spaced. Sputtering, he tried to make the turn to talk about Putin, but all that was revealed was how badly unprepared he is to talk about foreign policy.

    Not all of Clinton’s answers were perfect, with every time she brought up one of her “plans,” stopping her natural progression of building what she was doing. Her response to Edward Snowden was awful, but that’s hardly shocking.

    Debate preparation for Hillary was flawless, but the execution was nothing short of epic. It didn’t take long after her pivot on guns that she knew she’d surprised Bernie Sanders. All it takes in a debate competition is one moment when your opponent rattles you or switches up the timing and things can begin to go south. Clinton sensed she had control of things, started to relax, smile and she finally knew, after 10 months of living hell, that she had it back.

    All of it, her dreams, her hopes, and those of her loyal supporters who have been tearing their hair out hoping she’d wake the fuck up and bring it like she did in ’08.

    But really, how good was Hillary’s game plan? Not only did she embrace President Obama, but she made the case for herself leaving very little room for Joe Biden to enter.

    Las Vegas is good for Hillary Clinton. Gamble big and you can win big. She did that tonight and won. Huge.

    The Benghazi committee, oh, she’s got this.”

    Like

  8. rebelliousrenee says:

    Finally!… a debate among adults about issues that are important to the average American.
    I thought Hillary did very well. I love Bernie… but I agree with Jamie… he came across as an angry old white man much of the time. Of the 3 also running… I thought O’Malley was the best. IMO, Chafee and Webb won’t last much longer. I do think Webb came off as a sincere individual… but he looked out of place on that stage. I do feel sorry for Craig about it.

    Like

    • tony says:

      ” I do feel sorry for Craig about it.”
      I do as well.. Glad Craig is a true believer and giving it his all.. I think Jim Webb looked out of place because he was, same with Chafee, their moderate Republican’s after all.. Sadly they definitely don’t fit in with the Republican party of today either..

      Like

  9. tony says:

    Hillary Clinton towers over her debate rivals
    Dana Milbank
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/hillary-clinton-towers-over-her-debate-rivals/2015/10/13/fcfb4212-71e6-11e5-8248-98e0f5a2e830_story.html
    “Former Maryland governor Martin O’Malley was preachy and self-righteous. Former Virginia senator Jim Webb kept complaining that he wasn’t getting enough time to talk.
    Former Rhode Island governor Lincoln Chafee was more quirky spectator than participant.
    And Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont shouted as if he were unaware that he had a microphone.

    Then there was Clinton, fluid, steady and calm.

    After Sanders and Chafee criticized her 2003 Iraq vote — reviving a rather old issue — Clinton replied: “Well, I recall very well being on a debate stage, I think, about 25 times with then-Senator Obama, debating this very issue. After the election, he asked me to become secretary of state.”

    When O’Malley criticized her for being too quick to use the military, Clinton responded: “You know, I have to say, I was very pleased when Governor O’Malley endorsed me for president in 2008, and I enjoyed his strong support in that campaign.”

    Like

  10. whskyjack says:

    Well a quick review of punditry had HRC winning,
    Though it looked a bit like Alabama’s warmup games with southwest/ northeast/ central state U.
    I think we can safely say Biden is not running now.

    Jack

    Like

  11. Flatus says:

    “I think we can safely say Biden is not running now.” Don’t bet on it; isn’t there supposed to be a seance sometime in the next few days?

    Webb, according to the stats, had something like 15 minutes–only 2 minutes less than O’Malley. Clearly he did not make effective use of that time.

    Thank you, Hillary, I’m glad you admitted to not ever using pot–that makes at least two living Americans, you and I, who have not lusted for that mind altering experience.

    Like

  12. patd says:

    yeah, webb flubbed that last one, but there is a back story that makes sense according to
    this from http://gawker.com/jim-webb-s-crazy-debate-answer-about-killing-a-guy-has-1736401666

    But Webb’s story is actually far more interesting than that glib answer makes it seem. From the citation accompanying the Navy Cross that was awarded to Webb after Vietnam:

    On 10 July 1969, while participating in a company-sized search and destroy operation deep in hostile territory, First Lieutenant Webb’s platoon discovered a well-camouflaged bunker complex which appeared to be unoccupied. Deploying his men into defensive positions, First Lieutenant Webb was advancing to the first bunker when three enemy soldiers armed with hand grenades jumped out. Reacting instantly, he grabbed the closest man and, brandishing his .45 caliber pistol at the others, apprehended all three of the soldiers. Accompanied by one of his men, he then approached the second bunker and called for the enemy to surrender. When the hostile soldiers failed to answer him and threw a grenade which detonated dangerously close to him, First Lieutenant Webb detonated a claymore mine in the bunker aperture, accounting for two enemy casualties and disclosing the entrance to a tunnel. Despite the smoke and debris from the explosion and the possibility of enemy soldiers hiding in the tunnel, he then conducted a thorough search which yielded several items of equipment and numerous documents containing valuable intelligence data. Continuing the assault, he approached a third bunker and was preparing to fire into it when the enemy threw another grenade. Observing the grenade land dangerously close to his companion, First Lieutenant Webb simultaneously fired his weapon at the enemy, pushed the Marine away from the grenade, and shielded him from the explosion with his own body. Although sustaining painful fragmentation wounds from the explosion, he managed to throw a grenade into the aperture and completely destroy the remaining bunker.

    Like

    • Jamie says:

      All of which was noble and heroic but really, really out of place. As a closing statement and without context, “I killed the last guy who gave me a hard time” came off as more than a little strange.

      Like

  13. patd says:

    from http://www.newsday.com/opinion/joe-biden-lost-the-first-democrat-debate-1.10959270

    And if there was a loser Tuesday night, it might have been him. Because it sure didn’t seem like any doors of opportunity opened for him at the debate.
    [….]
    The Draft Biden super PAC trying to convince the veep to get into the race released another television commercial hours before the debate. This one was titled “Never Quit.”

    He won’t have to, if he never gets in.

    Like

  14. patd says:

    this is that draft joe ad mentioned above

    Published on Oct 13, 2015
    This is the second television ad released by the Draft Biden 2016 Super-PAC, asking Joe Biden to run for President in 2016.

    Like

  15. patd says:

    from http://www.allkpop.com/buzz/2015/10/korean-american-harvard-student-makes-headlines-for-challenging-donald-trump
    Presidential candidate Donald Trump was previously criticized this past summer for inaccurately stating that the United States’ military forces protect South Korea while South Korea gives absolutely nothing back. Netizens knew that was untrue, and at the recent ‘No Labels’ conference, one particular Harvard student stood up to confront Trump on the false statement.

    Like

  16. tony says:

    Hillary Clinton Was The Debate’s First — And Last — Candidate To Bring Up Planned Parenthood
    Abortion wasn’t really a topic of contention among the Democratic presidential candidates.
    Samantha Lachman
    Staff Reporter, The Huffington Post Video
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/hillary-clinton-planned-parenthood_561dc616e4b0c5a1ce611273
    I laughed out loud when Hillary said she was sick of it regarding Republican’s

    Like

  17. The goopers must be so embarassed

    Like

  18. blueINdallas says:

    Well, Colbert just gave Webb more exposure than he’s had since he announced. It wasn’t positive, but more people are definitely aware of him now.

    Like

  19. patd says:

    what a tour de force… pretty much did in everybody. be sure to watch the ending (especially starting at 10:50 re webb. poor craig).
    http://www.mediaite.com/tv/trevor-noah-unloads-on-dem-debate-mocks-hillary-for-playing-gender-card/

    Like

  20. tony says:

    Larry Wilmore slams Jim Webb for ugly #BlackLivesMatter answer: “The situation of African Americans?!”
    “What does that mean? Or maybe that’s what you call a group of us?” Wilmore said confused VIDEO
    SARAH BURRIS
    http://www.salon.com/2015/10/15/larry_wilmore_slams_jim_webb_for_ugly_blacklivesmatter_answer_the_situation_of_african_americans/

    Like

  21. tony says:

    Rand Paul on LGBT Workplace Discrimination: Just Keep Your Private Life Private
    by Josh Feldman
    http://www.mediaite.com/online/rand-paul-on-lgbt-workplace-discrimination-just-keep-your-private-life-private/

    Like

  22. patd says:

    from http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/14/politics/hillary-clinton-benghazi-committee/index.html
    Another Republican lawmaker says the House Select Committee on Benghazi is meant to go after former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
    Rep. Richard Hanna, R-New York, said Wednesday on New York’s’ WIBX 950, “Sometimes the biggest sin you can commit in D.C. is to tell the truth.”
    “This may not be politically correct, but I think that there was a big part of this investigation that was designed to go after people and an individual, Hillary Clinton,” said Hanna, who is not a member of the committee. “After what Kevin McCarthy said, it’s difficult to accept at least a part of it was not. I think that’s the way Washington works. But you’d like to expect more from a committee that’s spent millions of dollars and tons of time.”

    this is a link to the radio interview https://soundcloud.com/bill-keeler/10-14-15-seg-9

    Like

  23. Hey Rand….after a day in the life of Rand Paul ..you should heed your own advice TMI

    Like

  24. patd says:

    http://www.msnbc.com/andrea-mitchell-reports/watch/secretary-castro-endorses-hillary-clinton-545074755956
    Housing and Urban Development Secretary Julián Castro expresses support of Hillary Clinton’s candidacy ahead of her rally for Latino voters in San Antonio. He also addresses the chances of him becoming Clinton’s 2016 running mate.


    Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton, right, reaches out to hug Housing and Urban Development Secretary Julian Castro after she was introduced during a campaign event, Thursday, Oct. 15, 2015, in San Antonio. (AP Photo/Eric Gay)

    Like

  25. patd says:

    situation normal: a woman having to straighten up the house after a man mess

    from http://www.blogher.com/first-female-republican-speaker-house
    Currently the GOP Conference Chairwoman, McMorris-Rodgers was first elected to Congress in 2004, and has served in Republican leadership since 2009. She passed on running for Majority Leader following the announcement that Speaker Boehner would resign; however, the dynamics of leadership races have changed since then.
    She is conservative (see her 72 percent lifetime score from the Club for Growth), but not on the right wing of the congressional party. More mainstream than, say, your average Freedom Caucus member, she is also no moderate. She does have a reputation for being a lower profile, harder worker, relative to some of her more media-friendly, media-savvy peers. Coming from a blue state (Washington), relative to some Republicans, she also has to interact and work more with Democrats as part of her state delegation, which despite the GOP’s overwhelming majorities in both Chambers could eventually prove useful.

    Like

    • Jamie says:

      This is much too sane an idea. I doubt the Freedom Caucus would allow such a thing unless they start referring to the Speaker’s Dais as the Congressional Kitchen.

      Like

  26. patd says:

    from https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/10/15/people-are-criticizing-my-dad-jim-webb-for-killing-a-man-heres-what-theyre-missing/
    If you watched the Democratic presidential debate on Tuesday night, you probably heard the closing comment by my father, Jim Webb. Without hesitation he answered that the enemy he was ‘most proud of’ was the Vietnamese soldier who wounded him with a hand grenade. He then added that “…he isn’t around anymore.”

    While there were those in the media and around the country who were a bit stunned, and perhaps even put off by this answer, my fellow veterans and I were not. If anything, his blunt (and perhaps a bit brutal) honesty was much appreciated, and further endeared him to us as a candidate. We veterans are also more likely to have a fuller picture of my father’s record. He’s the man who gave us the post-9/11 GI Bill. We also know him as a highly decorated combat veteran who earned the Navy Cross for the entire episode surrounding that grenade, not just the snippet that has been focused on.
    [….]
    Yes, the man who threw the grenade isn’t around anymore, but more importantly the man who my Father shielded with his own body lived to see another day. As a Marine and as a leader, that is the important part. To me and many other veterans, we have a sea of presidential candidates who seemingly have only personal interests in mind. Yet, here is a leader who has not only endured war, but demonstrated that he is willing to sacrifice his life for his people. Is that really something to be sneered at?

    Like

  27. patd says:

    from http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/10/15/i-asked-psychologists-to-analyze-trump-supporters-this-is-what-i-learned/

    Interviews with psychologists and other experts suggest one explanation for the candidate’s success — and for the collective failure to anticipate it: The political elite hasn’t confronted a few fundamental, universal and uncomfortable facts about the human mind.

    We like people who talk big.

    We like people who tell us that our problems are simple and easy to solve, even when they aren’t.

    And we don’t like people who don’t look like us.

    Most people share these characteristics to some degree, but they seem to be especially prevalent among Trump’s base.

    Like

  28. rebelliousrenee says:

    Hey… enchanted… Kathleen… great to see your face over here!

    After reading about Webb’s heroic story from Vietnam… I applaud him mightily for his deed.
    The problem isn’t what he did… the problem is that I’m sure very few people watching that debate knew what the hell he was talking about(I had no idea until reading about it here)… consequently, it made for an awkward moment in the debate. I really like Jim Webb as a person… but as a presidential candidate, IMO, he stinks.

    Like

  29. tony says:

    Jim Webb: CNN Democratic Debate Was ‘Rigged’ For Clinton and Sanders
    by Andrew Husband
    http://www.mediaite.com/online/jim-webb-cnn-democratic-debate-was-rigged-for-clinton-and-sanders/
    No Mr. Webb you didn’t stand out.. In listening to XM radio Progressive he hasn’t really even campaigned or asked large numbers of voters for their vote.. I’m sorry, in his opening statement he mentions St. Reagan like that’s a plus to Democrats…. I understand why he can’t run as a Republican but he’s not a Democrat..

    Like

  30. blueINdallas says:

    Webb sounds like he’s surprised by how the media works. Look, if you want to be on the stage and there is no rule for equal time, then that’s the way it is. If he had said something to garner more time and attention when he did have an opening, well…he didn’t.
    I feel bad for Craig; I’m sure Webb has the ability to serve in some capacity, but not as prez.
    Seriously, most people know the media stages debates for the risidual buzz the next day. They are not set up to inform the public about a candidate’s positions, at least not these days.
    That’s what stump speeches and websites are meant to do.

    It seems you can negotiate your own debate rules if you have enough juice. Trump and Cartoon…, er, Carson, have plenty of it. Honestly, can you imagine the ratings for a debate without The Odd Couple?

    Like

  31. blueINdallas says:

    Why would you tell everyone that you begged Bernie to mention your name during the debate? It’s one thing to do it and another to announce such a desperate move. I think Webb should run as long as he can, take good notes, and write a book. It’s a really odd campaign season on both sides; there will be many books about 2016.

    Like

    • tony says:

      Blue
      Good suggestion for Jim Webb.. Kinda shocking to read this piece.. I feel bad for Craig, really i do. I’m at a big loss here.. Strange

      Like

  32. patd says:

    according to nyt it was 31:05 for Hillary, 28:05 for Bernie, 17:56 for O’Malley, 15:35 for jim webb and 9:11 for chafee
    “Hillary Rodham Clinton had the most speaking time of the debate, with more than three times that of Lincoln Chafee, who had the least.”

    blue, I disagree with the 1st part when you said “the media stages debates for the residual buzz the next day. They are not set up to inform the public about a candidate’s positions…” but thoroughly agree with the last. they want feuds, scandal, entertainment to grab the most viewers in order to make money… they (like critterville) don’t care a fig about the common good and the country.

    Like

  33. my wannabe hipster son is posting memes about how sanders really won the debate and cnn is shutting that down, not reporting the true winner because cnn (time warner) is her 7th largest financial supporter. i would like to offer him some cheese- but have refrained.

    Like

  34. tony says:

    The GOP Was Right to Fear Clinton
    Eugene Robinson
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/10/16/the_gop_was_right_to_fear_clinton_128437.html
    ” How can government help the middle class? With a higher minimum wage? With a mandate for businesses to offer paid family leave? With assistance in paying for higher education, perhaps even free tuition at public universities? With trade and tax policies that encourage keeping jobs in the United States?

    The Democratic candidates understand that these are the issues people care most about. Trump gets it, too, in his own bombastic way. A party that goes into the election without a compelling message on jobs and incomes — I’m talking to you, GOP establishment — is begging to lose.”

    Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s