It’s that time again boys and girls… agenda free weekend. Chat away with whatever grabs ya!
The Heilan’ Coo
I'm a hair-dishevelled heilan' coo, Hamish McKay be ma name; Welcome tae this dreichet glen I'm cursed tae ca' ma hame. Depending on the mood I'm in I'll raise ma horns on high, An' if I like the look o' ye I'll likely let ye by. But should I dinnae like the look O' ye, then tak great care, I'll raise ma horns on high again, Go on, get oot o'there! So whether welcome yae or nae, I'll raise these horns sae mean, Then ye shall ken ma meaning By the twinkle o' ma een. Courtesy of MARION GRAY Wollaton Road Wollaton Park Nottingham-
Favorite Quotes
'Anni, amori e bicchieri di vino, nun se contano mai.”' '“Years, lovers and glasses of wine; these things must not be counted.' Anthony Capella
"1933: We did not think of the great open plains, the beautiful rolling hills, and winding streams with tangled growth as “wild.” Only to the white man was nature a “wilderness” and only to him was the land “infested” with “wild” animals and “savage” people. To us it was tame. Earth was bountiful, and we were surrounded with the blessings of the Great Mystery. Not until the hairy man from the East came—and with brutal frenzy heaped injustices upon us and the families we loved—was it “wild” for us. When the very animals of the forest began fleeing from his approach, then it was for us that the “Wild West” began." - Luther Standing Bear
"I do NOT believe we are all born equal. Created equal in the eyes of God, yes, but physical and emotional differences, parental guidelines, varying environments, being in the right place at the right time, all play a role in enhancing or limiting an individual's development. But I DO believe every man and woman, if given the opportunity and encouragement to recognize their potential, regardless of background, has the freedom to choose in our world. Will an individual be a taker or a giver in life? Will that person be satisfied merely to exist or seek a meaningful purpose? Will he or she dare to dream the impossible dream? I believe every person is created as the steward of his or her own destiny with great power for a specific purpose, to share with others, through service, a reverence for life in a spirit of love."
— Hugh O'Brian, "The Freedom to Choose"Recent Comments
Jamie on The Rape tony bassham on The Rape rebelliousrenee on The Rape Oregon Democrat on The Rape Overbosity on The Rape
Jamie's Place for Stuff 
Thank you Renee. I’m still short term with the computer and keeping leg up.
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From Tony during the changeover:
Joe Scarborough: Democrats Are ‘Exhausted’ By Hillary Clinton
The “Morning Joe” host has had enough of the former secretary of state — even though the campaign hasn’t really started.
Gabriel Arana
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/joe-scarborough-hillary-clinton_55cdfb94e4b0ab468d9d00cc?utm_hp_ref=politics&ir=Politics§ion=politics&kvcommref=mostpopular
Oh i feel for all you MJ viewers.. Thankfully i don’t watch.. Reading was infuriating enough
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When it comes to Mika and Joe, I can’t decide who is worse: Simper or Whimper
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Reading the comments was a pleasure.. Unanimously against Joe.. Mika well, she’s the poorest excuse for a liberal there ever was.. MSNBC lets that blowhard Joe run.. Liberal media, what a joke..
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re trumpster from brooks (nyt) and corn (mother jones) last night on http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/brooks-corn-cuba-campaign-issue-jeb-bush-islamic-state-blame/
JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, speaking of a roiled-up party, Donald Trump has been dismissed by everybody from one end of the spectrum to the other, but he is just — David Corn, he seems to be just getting stronger.
DAVID CORN: Oh, yes.
JUDY WOODRUFF: He’s going to Iowa. He’s landing in a helicopter at the Iowa State Fair tomorrow. He’s in the catbird seat, at least this weekend.
DAVID CORN: And I think will be for months to come.
I think it was foolish to dismiss him, not because as him. He comes across as a reality TV tycoon buffoon. But the people who are, you know, attracted to him are a real important part of the Republican primary base. You know, a lot of Republicans still believe that Barack Obama wasn’t born in the United States, that he’s some sort of secret socialist and secret Muslim who has a secret plan to destroy the United States.
And they just really don’t like him. And so they want somebody who’s going to vent their fears, their frustrations, not someone who’s for good government with policies. And that bloc is anywhere between 10 percent and maybe 25 percent. And in a divided field, that gives Donald Trump, if he speaks to these people, yes, what he said, this outsized influence.
I don’t think that bloc is going away, and Trump isn’t going away.
DAVID BROOKS: I agree Trump isn’t going away, but he’s not going to get votes. I think his voters are…
DAVID BROOKS: I think much less than he polls. He will poll really well. I think he will hang around 20 forever.
But he — his voters are what they call low-information voters, that is to say, people who don’t pay attention to politics. And this is a conservative party, and he is not a conservative. He’s against entitlement reform. He’s for a single-payer health care system. His ideology is not left/right. It’s winners and losers. And I’m a winner, and all those people up — that you don’t like and you feel alienated by, they’re a bunch of losers.
And so it’s not a classic ideology. I think he will get it because — for the reasons I said it earlier. For the same reason Jeb Bush and Hillary Clinton are struggling, he’s rising. He’s at the moment where the country wants some sort of weird insurgency with a lot of ego. And that’s him.
And so he’s at the moment of the times, but I don’t think those people are going to show up. And he will just hang around at 20 percent forever, but somebody will eventually beat him.
JUDY WOODRUFF: Well, we keep talking about him every Friday. So, we will see how long it lasts.
DAVID BROOKS: Well, he continues to be an incredibly gross human being.
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Gay Couple Returns to KY Clerk Office and Are Refused Marriage License Again
by Andrew Kirell
http://www.mediaite.com/online/watch-gay-couple-returns-to-ky-clerk-office-and-are-refused-marriage-license-again/
Cruel, i’ll say.. Religion yet again being used as a shield to hurt and discriminate.. Lol, that woman is worried about her soul if she issues a marriage licience to gays.. Why isn’t she out of a job? Oh yes right, she’s religous and we must respect that.. How about respecting gay tax payers?????
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Clinton: GOP 2016 field ‘just like Trump without the pizzaz and the hair’
By Eric Bradner, CNN
http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/14/politics/hillary-clinton-wing-ding/index.html
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morning load the mayor of crazytown – remember scarborugh Country? People like Pat Buchanan live there. he’s an ass he posed in a flight suit even though he never served in the military — how very Shrub of him
I watched the truck on tv last night and he is like Mr. Bluster. But he could be the igniter for the US version of the arab spring. He is saying all the things about campaign reform that Obamarama did but then did nothing about. Maybe electing him is the public’s response to our current pols– I think we all feel this way sometimes especially when you see him lined up with the what the goops are calling their best and brightest . Scott Walker is revealed as the Koch’s Uriah Heep what a creep He won’t win in Iowa because they ge tnews from Wisconsin familiarity does breed contempt and well deserved in his case
And their best hope in Carly yikes
I think it says everything that in Iowa the top two candidates are Trump and the nutcase doctor who like many goopers doesn’t feel that a fact that to be true or that his actions should ever be questioned
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from http://www.thewrap.com/donald-trump-helicopters-into-iowa-to-blast-puppet-jeb-bush-and-iraqi-crooks/
“Jeb Bush is a puppet to his donors,” Trump said donning his red “Make America Great” hat. He also slammed the former Florida Governor for saying we have to prove we have “skin in the game” in Iraq.
“It may be one of the dumbest statements I ever heard,” the GOP frontrunner said, adding Iraqi officials are a bunch of “crooks” and Bush should apologize to the families of fallen U.S. soldiers.
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it all sounds good but means nothing….warning warning warning this is how Ahnold got elected big field and the media celebrated his anit-govt assholism and his pretence that he was going to fund his own campaign but in the end he let the car dealers pay for it
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When people thougt Palin was a threat they (especially the left blogistan) went after everything little thing — why isn’t this happening with trump –plenty there ..corrupt licensing — sleezy deals and what about his multple marriages — what kind of family values does he have?
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Dick Van Dyke and a much younger generation geeking out to their childhood: Let’s Go Fly A Kite
http://www.tout.com/m/15hbpj
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hello all! so cool- posted on hillary’s fb and jamie responded, alicia too. and here i thought i was posting in a monstrous vacuum. am looking for a link to hillary’s wing ding speech, was told to watch. there is a fund raiser this am for hillary-1000 per person- wish i could be there. have my open market to run this am otherwise i think i would be standing on the roadside in hopes of meeting my big dawg and hill. get well soon jamie!
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Kathleen, good to see ya! here’s a link to hillary’s wing ding speech and more:
http://hillaryspeeches.com/tag/wing-ding/
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beware, faux gnus ahead. following is from http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/08/15/clinton-obama-meet-face-to-face-on-martha-vineyard-amid-email-controversy-biden/
“President Obama and Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton met face to face Saturday evening on Martha’s Vineyard, amid increasing scrutiny about Clinton’s activities as secretary of state and speculation about whether Vice President Biden will challenge her in 2016.
Clinton and Obama met on the same exclusive Massachusetts vacation island on which they met last August under strained circumstances. The two attended an 80th birthday party for Vernon Jordan, a Democratic operative and former Clinton administration adviser.
The swanky Massachusetts island is a famous as a gathering spot for prominent Democratic figures.”
“swanky” island famous as a gathering spot for prominent Democratic figures? like our very own Kathleen aka oldseahag.
and from http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/15/email-setbacks-bernie-sanders-but-hillary-clinton-still-favorite
“Hillary Clinton still Democrats’ prize fighter despite setbacks and Sanders
Party’s ‘safe haven’ may see a few bumps in the road – and rumours of Joe Biden considering a run – but strategists agree she remains Republicans’ top opponent”
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Sad news this morning with the passing of Julian Bond http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/16/us/naacp-julian-bond-dead/index.html
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from https://www.splcenter.org/news/2015/08/16/weve-lost-champion
From his days as the co-founder and communications director of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee in the 1960s to his chairmanship of the NAACP in the 21st century, Julian was a visionary and tireless champion for civil and human rights. He served as the SPLC’s president from our founding in 1971 to 1979, and later as a member of its board of directors.
With Julian’s passing, the country has lost one of its most passionate and eloquent voices for the cause of justice. He advocated not just for African Americans, but for every group, indeed every person subject to oppression and discrimination, because he recognized the common humanity in us all.
Julian is survived by his wife, Pamela Horowitz, a former SPLC staff attorney, and his five children.
Not only has the country lost a hero today, we’ve lost a great friend.
above conversation is a fascinating look at his family and growing up background in his own words
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Sea! Welcome home! Try not to be _too_ busy at the shop…
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Sunday Serendipity.
A beautiful work and some excellent visuals. Enjoy!
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Hillary Clinton drops her guard in Iowa
Somehow, she managed to meet ‘everyday Americans’ amid the mob scene at the Iowa State Fair.
By Rachael Bade
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/hillary-clinton-drops-her-guard-in-iowa-121394.html#ixzz3izDlFlZP
“When people realized who was in the building, they pushed toward the cameras and flying boom microphones — so much that Clinton’s omnipresent security detail, which wore plaid shirts to blend in with the crowd, had to hold some back because they couldn’t keep eyes on everyone. With temperatures outside in the high 80s, the place was like a sauna.
People encircled balconies in the barn to get a glimpse of her, yelling “look here, Hillary!” or “Hillary, I love you!” And those on the ground who couldn’t see her because of all the bodies held up their phones, angling them such that they could snap a memento.”
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Joe Biden strategy for White House run taking shape
‘I think he’s getting closer to saying yes,’ one Biden ally says.
By Edward-Isaac Dovere, Gabriel Debenedetti and Kenneth P. Vogel
Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/biden-strategy-for-white-house-run-taking-shape-121377.html#ixzz3izEK3S76
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the gooper trash flash for the week must have been –Hillary is over. Sheep.
Joe Biden ….Al Gore??? What’s next Pat Buchanan Is Harold Stassen still alive
I watched the Sunday talk shows –omg someone must have done something terrible to Ron Fournier he called trump a Feckless Blowhard….so accurate and then went on to say is untrustworthy and i she elected president no documents were safe for history….wow
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should say Hillary is untrustworthy…
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Jace, the Fauré is absolutely perfect for sending me to the couch for my nap, you devil, you 🙂
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Today’s NYT has a scathing examination of Amazon’s personnel policies. It’s a worthwhile read for anyone in a corporate environment.
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I read it, wow, eye opening.. I love Amazon but its just so ugly!
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here’s a quote from a rebuttal at http://www.businessinsider.com/what-its-like-to-work-for-amazon-2015-8?op=1
“Amazon used to burn a lot of people into the ground,” Ciubotariu recited the executive’s words in a LinkedIn post. “This isn’t how we do things anymore, and it isn’t how I run my business. I want this to be a place where people solve problems that cannot be solved, anywhere in the world, but they feel good about working for a great company at the same time. And if you’re burning people into the ground with overwork, you’re not doing it right, and you need to course-correct, or you don’t need to be here.”
He says he’s also never seen any Amazon employees cry during his time there, which a source told NYT was a relatively frequent occurrence.
So, what is it really like to work for Amazon?
According to Ciubotariu, it’s great!
“We work hard, and have fun,” he writes. “We have Nerf wars, almost daily, that often get a bit out of hand. We go out after work. We have ‘Fun Fridays’. We banter, argue, play video games and Foosball. And we’re vocal about our employee happiness.”
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be sure to scroll down past pictures and click on video from http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3199369/Obama-Bill-Clinton-play-golf-Marthas-Vineyard.html
Vacationing President Obama plays golf with Bill Clinton – before Hillary joins them for a night out with Michelle
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gnarly’s response to the Donald’s slam
“She’s a very nice woman, she got fired, she did a terrible job at Hewlett-Packard,..”
according to http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/aug/16/carly-fiorina-hillary-clinton-lied-donald-trump
“I don’t spend a lot of time thinking about what Donald Trump says,” Fiorina said, on ABC News. “It’s not clear to me that Donald Trump is a Republican, based on his willingness to run a third-party bid and some of the positions he’s taken.”
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from http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/16/1412548/-Koch-Sez-End-Corporate-Welfare#
“Have the hinges of hell frozen over? Has the Plus-Sized Lady sung the finale? Have Porcine avians come home to roost? What in the heck is going on here?”
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Clinton Delivers at Wing Ding, Helicopter Rides from Trump
by Tayler Marsh
“Hillary Rodham Clinton denounced Jeb Bush and discussed the rise of the Islamic State. Bernie Sanders held forth on Social Security. But at the Iowa State Fair, where a life-size butter cow rules and fairgoers devour stick-impaled delicacies, it is the candidacy of Donald J. Trump that perhaps best captures the air of raucous excess. – Amy Chozick [New York Times]
WHEN THINGS get tough Hillary Clinton can deliver clutch performances that surprise even her most ardent supporters. That’s what happened at the Iowa Democratic Wing Ding dinner. Looking like the happiest presidential warrior in Iowa, there was no sign that Clinton continues to battle email/server stories. Hoping her rousing Wing Ding speech will act as a collective chill pill for party elites, she rose to the occasion and did herself a lot of good.
The most wonderful thing about it all is that Hillary Clinton was having so much fun. She let the walls tumble down and let her happy warrior loose.
In a witty approach to the controversy surrounding the use of her private email server whilst she was secretary of state – and her subsequently deleting several thousand of the emails before they could be made public – Mrs Clinton told the audience that she recently began a Snap chat account: “I love it,” she quipped. “Those messages disappear by themselves.”
She delivered a mocking warning to voters not to be fooled believing that the other Republican contenders were any more moderate or reasonable than the firebrand celebrity frontrunner Donald Trump.
“Don’t let the circus distract you, if you look at their policies, most of the other candidates are just Trump without the pizzazz or the hair,” she said. “Yes, Mr Trump says outrageous and hateful things about immigrants but how many of the other candidates disagree with him?”
On Saturday Donald Trump landed at the Iowa State Fair and proceeded to keep his promise to kids that they could have helicopter rides, which took flight outside of the official happenings due to restrictions.
It may be August, with summer holiday time on people’s minds, but in Iowa the only thing that matters is meeting the 2016 candidates.
Hillary Clinton gave a performance that has been missing to date from her campaign. Anyone who has followed her going back to 2008 knows that when things get really tough there is no one who can reach down and bring out a performance like Hillary. People needed to see this, Democrats most of all.”
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Hillary Clinton’s Got This
Ross Douchat
“Because absent an indictment— or, I suppose, an email showing her deliberately accepting payola from Vladimir Putin — the email affair, no less than the shady Clinton Foundation dealings, looks like the kind of scandal that Clinton supporters have long conditioned themselves to justify: An inappropriate and self-interested episode, clumsily covered over, but at once murky and slow-dripping enough for Democratic partisans to shrug, say, “LOLBenghazi” and move on.
And if they prove me wrong? Well, save this column: Come the Gore Inaugural, you can make me eat my words.”
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Fun list to argue about: Rolling Stone Top 100 Songwriters: http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/100-greatest-songwriters
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flatus, re your favorite goper from http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2015/08/16/capitol-insider-koch-brothers-columbus-event-to-have-5-gop-candidates-not-kasich.html
Americans for Prosperity, bankrolled by GOP mega-donors Charles and David Koch, is snubbing the Ohio governor at its Defending the American Dream summit at the Greater Columbus Convention Center.
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Hillary Clinton Should Ask Herself: What Would Donald Trump Do?
Instead of feeling embarrassed for celebrity-slumming at his wedding, Clinton should ponder why he’s being seen as ‘authentic’ and she’s considered ‘calculating’ and ‘untrustworthy.’
Johnathon Alter
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/08/17/hillary-clinton-should-ask-herself-what-would-donald-trump-do.html
Good piece by Johnathon (no Clinton fan) Alter. Every morning its the same old story from the press, negative negative negative Hillary articles.. Ive stopped reading as the narrative is always the same..
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The GOP’s apocalyptic Obama fantasies: Why Cruz & Walker’s economic fear-mongering makes literally zero sense
The economy has improved greatly since 2009, but to listen to a Republican, we’re living in a wasteland
BOB CESCA
http://www.salon.com/2015/08/17/the_gops_apocalyptic_obama_fantasies_why_cruz_walkers_economic_fear_mongering_makes_literally_zero_sense/
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Kasich should wear his exclusion as a mantle of distinguished accomplishment.
Here we have a party where one candidate, Trump, claims the privilege of running government, to include domestic and foreign policy, any damned way he pleases because he has enough money to buy the nomination and the election.
The Kochs, to prove their relevance, exclude the one accomplished candidate running as a putative (i don’t think he is) Republican. And the former governor of Texas, in order to make payroll, must pledge fealty to a superpac.
And, We, the People… are screwed by the Group of Nein sitting in their marble mansion pondering more important matters than campaign financing.
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Flatus…
bravo!… you’ve nailed it!
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Man!… it’s hot out and I HATE heat!
My fingers are sweating just from typing this post. I’m now gonna do my impression of the wicked witch of the west and melt…
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renee, with so many politicians visiting you in new Hampshire and spewing all that hot air, no wonder.
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flatus, here’s a look at another goper puppet meister
“Sheldon Adelson Exposed: Underage Drinking & Gambling. Prostitution. (Tim James Show Teaser)”
came upon the above from http://calvinayre.com/2015/08/16/business/sheldon-adelson-online-gambling-hypocrisy-exposed/ article
“The video, a teaser for the new TheTimJamesShow.com (episode 1 of which will debut on August 19), takes aim at the demonstrably false claims made by the Las Vegas Sands chairman and his Coalition to Stop Internet Gambling (CSIG) regarding online gambling’s alleged inability to prevent access by underage gamblers.”
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tony, here’s some of the problem according to http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/18/us/politics/hillary-clinton-iowa.html?_r=0
“She just needs to come out and meet Iowans, and the rest will fall into place,” he said.
Mrs. Clinton, accompanied by a dozen Secret Service agents, state troopers and staff members, as well as a horde of reporters, photographers and videographers, then tried to do just that.
Iowans could hardly get close enough to take photographs of the former secretary of state, much less talk to her. “What did she say? We couldn’t hear a word!” a woman with an H (for Hillary) campaign button shouted after Mr. Harkin’s remarks.
Mrs. Clinton and her campaign have tried assiduously to overcome the public perception that she is aloof and unapproachable, [….]
The challenge for Mrs. Clinton today is that she cannot entirely shed the layers of staff and security — and the news media mob — that come with being Hillary Rodham Clinton.
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It is a definite problem. She almost needs to request media cooperation to hold some sort of televised “real people” forum even allowing people from other campaigns or who disagree with her. You can’t have some RW nut case assassinating the former FLOTUS for the sake of “access”. In the meantime, the over the top hate Hillary coverage is doing a real disservice to the American public.
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Yes, a problem.. Its tough, i don’t see how Hillary sheds the secret service.. Still most of the problem is the press hate for Hillary.. I mean she has 19 Republican canidates attacking her, Fox news, NYT,s and the main stream media.. Oh and many left liberals.. Wow, tough as nails she is..
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I’ll be at a relatively small (conference room sized) show and tell by John Podesta on Wed afternoon. Does anybody have any questions for him that you’ve not yet received satisfactory answers?
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See the above for a question on how to cool down the media witch hunt and whether or not some forum as described by be arranged. I know it is only August, but the torches and pitch forks “the witch must die” coverage is really upsetting me.
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Oh have to keep the leg up all day tomorrow. Can someone post an anything subject for Tuesday?
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Why a moderate Republican wants to nominate Trump so he will lose to Clinton http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/moderate-republicans-donald-trump-tea-party-conservative-fringe-2016-120675.html#ixzz3ilS5hkP9
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Trump Tops in New Fox News Poll, Bush Now in Single Digits
By Taylor Marsh
http://www.taylormarsh.com/2015/08/trump-tops-in-new-fox-news-poll-bush-now-in-single-digits/
“On “Meet the Press” Donald Trump came out with his immigration plan. One part has to do with ignoring the 14th Amendment, which gives citizenship to “all persons born or naturalized in the United States.” Trump would end birthright citizenship of legal parents, though without amending the U.S. Constitution it’s hard to imagine how this gets done.
“Keep dropping the truth bomb!” one supporter said to Donald Trump in New Hampshire, reported by Bloomberg politics.
In the new Fox News poll Jeb! is now in single digits, with Walker moving down as well, which reveals why he’s glomming on the Donald Trump’s first foray into policy prescriptions.
Businessman Donald Trump still leads the field for the Republican nomination. He gets 25 percent among GOP primary voters. He was at 26 percent before the debate. Trump’s support among women went from 24 percent two weeks ago to 21 percent now. He mostly held steady among men (28 percent). […]
Next in the GOP race is Carson, who garners 12 percent. That’s up five percentage points since the debate and puts him in double-digits for the first time since mid-June. Cruz captures 10 percent, up four points.
Bush has dropped to nine percent. That’s down six points — and puts him in single digits for the first time since April.
Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee held steady at six percent. Walker slips to six percent — down three points and the lowest support he’s received for more than a year.
Fiorina garners five percent support (+3 points), with Kasich (+1) and Rubio (-1) both at four percent. New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie and Paul each get three percent. The remaining candidates are at one percent or less.
Rick Perry is trying desperately to get funding, with his dire straights in evidence on Twitter. Christie, Paul, Perry, none of these candidates has a chance. When will they admit it? We might have to wait until the second debate to have that answered.
Scott Walker is attempting to make a move in Iowa, because his candidacy depends on it.
What Jeb! will do if he can’t get traction in New Hampshire is unknowable, because of all his money. That he’s having to spend some of it now is due to one man.
Donald Trump is the unmitigated frontrunner who’s changed the Republican calculus for 2016, at least on cable where it’s being said that Republicans now believe he not only could win Iowa, but maybe even New Hampshire.
Culled from his “Meet the Press” interview on Sunday, some topics he discussed, with the most telling being Trump’s answer on the Iran Deal. It may surprise you, because it’s the smartest reply from any Republican to date.”
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Trump Is the Republicans’ Nightmare and They Won’t Wake Up From It
By Jonathan Chait
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/08/trump-is-the-republicans-nightmare.html
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New Thread!
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renee, for some reason your new thread didn’t register on the right at the top of this one as a new one usually does. so here is another link to it until it shows up: https://jamiesplace.wordpress.com/2015/08/18/trump-trump-trump-trump/
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